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Author Topic: As a helpful aide to JLB and kingdompassion  (Read 849 times)
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NHIM147
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« Reply #15 on: Late June, last year »
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From what I have read and percieved Mandal.  You are turning the Word of God around out of no Love and using it for judgementalism and condemnation and not for the Glory of God to win others and to love your enemies and bring them to Him.  As I know the Word.  It says that judgementalism and condemnation are of satan and the Word also states how we are to minister in Love and not hate and anger and tryig to judge ones you dont know.  Last time I checked in The Word and His Spirit in me.  CHRIST IS THE JUDGE!!!!!  NOT YOU!!!!!
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JLB1206
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« Reply #16 on: Late June, last year »
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Thank you so much John. The theme this weekend is "The Family Is Worth Fighting For." In light of my divorce I wonder that He has placed me here to speak on such a subject. But alas.....He has positioned me to speak concerning Achan and how his disobedient leadership destroyed his own family. WOW! I did not think He would lead me to preach on this subject but I will certainly enjoy every minute. What a contrast between Achan and Joshua, or Achan and Phillip the Evangelist (who had 4 virgin daughters and ALL a prophetess.)  [thumbup]



Amen, and that's why we choose to call Him Father, which is personal than God.
Do well this weekend, I'm believing for great results and new doors.

KP

KP such things cannot be said/implied about us on either side of this discussion because We've been selected......and we willingly said "yes." He drew us and we accepted. Either way we win!   [thumbup]

BTW  Mandal....Yes the Word DOES say what I stated!



Soyou are saying God has chosen some to be saved, and God has chosen ALL others to be damned.

Just a plain YES or NO, we know the word, and as you know the Word well small parts of the word, can be quoted to proves ones point.

Again, just give me a YES or NO

You are also implying you know the word and we don't, and implying that both Jan and I don't believe that its the Holy Spirit that is the agent to draw man. However we unlike you belive that the Father desires that all be saved, that non shall perish. Isn't it interesting that John told us that God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but that the WORLD, ALL MANKIND might be saved.

Meaning that God's heart is for ALL to be saved, but not all men will be saved, because some will reject the drawing of the Holy Spirit. Of course you will probably try to tell us that it is impossible to resist the Holy Spirits drawing power.

I agree with your comment God does not and cannot contradict Himself, so guess what.




KP


Mandal I know you mean well......but your message is not well. As if we do not know these same scriptures already. Any of us can rehearse scripture. It is always amusing to me how on this site we love to say "don't take the Word out of context"....but if it benefits our own personal needs...then the context has little validity to us. I chuckle at those who muse on here. And honestly we can all use scripture to prove our point that is why we must let Him who reveals, illuminate the Word to us. Sir your thoughts are as much philosophy as anyone else's.

The most powerful statement in your own words on this (helpful) post is.....

For the unrighteous to choose righteousness is an impossibility, until the Holy Spirit opens our eyes.

So it boils down to this......the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus to the unrighteous....and the unrighteous may then choose to come to HIM.  So it was for you, so it was for me, so it still is for us and for ALL!  For the unrighteous to choose righteousness?Huh???...... further for the Righteous to continue to choose righteousness is still only possible as the Holy Spirit reveals it to us. It seems also that most of those who believe totally in God's sovereignty,  predestination or selectivity always live in the world of "I'm a sinner saved by grace." In that grace I guess God never really deals with "depravity" at any realm for these. I simply was an ungodly, unrighteous, sinner with no hope in myself......but I am now His covenant blood bought child whom sin has no dominion over.

May the King of Glory be praised!

“For the unrighteous to choose righteousness is an impossibility, until the Holy Spirit opens our eyes.”

So it boils down to this......the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus to the unrighteous....and the unrighteous may then choose to come to HIM.

But that’s not what it says, dear lady.  Is it?

John 1:4-5 - In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

3:20 - For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should BE EXPOSED. (This is the nature of unregenerate man - to practice evil, whether in thought, word, or deed. “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." Ja.2:10)

3:21 - But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done IN GOD." (The sins of those who come to God has been brought to light by the Holy Spirit. Those whom the atonement has been applied to, the redeemed).

II Cor3.:6 -  For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, WHO HAS SHONE IN OUR HEARTS to give the light of the knowledge OF THE GLORY OF GOD in the face of Jesus Christ.

3:7 - But we have this treasure in earthen vessels (sinners whom God is saving), that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

He has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge to believe on Him...that the excellence of the power may be of God, and not of us.  Until He gives us the light of the knowledge, and the power to do so, we will never believe in Him.

Light is not brought out of darkness.  Neither does love come from hate.  "That which is of the flesh, is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit."

"For when we were still without strength (power, ability), in due time Christ died for the ungodly."

"I simply was an ungodly, unrighteous, sinner with no hope in myself..."  But yet, you continue to talk about "choice."
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The foundation of REVIVAL is the repentant heart found at the altar of prayer.   jlb
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« Reply #17 on: Late June, last year »
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From what I have read and percieved Mandal.  You are turning the Word of God around out of no Love and using it for judgementalism and condemnation and not for the Glory of God to win others and to love your enemies and bring them to Him.  As I know the Word.  It says that judgementalism and condemnation are of satan and the Word also states how we are to minister in Love and not hate and anger and tryig to judge ones you dont know.  Last time I checked in The Word and His Spirit in me.  CHRIST IS THE JUDGE!!!!!  NOT YOU!!!!!

I just quote the plain clear word of God.  Do with it what your heart dictates.

To be cont...
« Last Edit: Late June, last year by MANDAL » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: Late June, last year »
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“Soyou are saying God has chosen some to be saved, and God has chosen ALL others to be damned.”


No.  I'm only quoting Gods words, and you can infer from there.

1:28 - And God ALSO SELECTED (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things THAT ARE NOTHING, that He might DEPOSE AND BRING TO NOTHING the things that are, (can believers love Him enough for such great love and mercy?)

1:29 - So that no mortal man should [have pretense for glorying and] BOAST in the presence of God. (clearly denying the assumption of ‘free choice’)

1:30 - But it is FROM HIM THAT YOU HAVE YOUR LIFE in Christ Jesus, Whom God made OUR WISDOM from God, [revealed to us A KNOWLEDGE of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].

1:31 - So then, as it is written, Let him who boasts and proudly rejoices and glories, boast and proudly rejoice and glory in the Lord.

3:21 - But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done IN GOD." (The sins of those who come to God has been brought to light by the Holy Spirit. Those whom the atonement has been applied to, just as you previously said.).

II Cor3.:6 - For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, WHO HAS SHONE IN OUR HEARTS to give the light OF THE KNOWLEDGE ( to those who believe)  OF THE GLORY OF GOD in the face of Jesus Christ. (Those to whom the atonement is applied to).

3:7 - BUT WE HAVE THIS TREASURE in earthen vessels (sinners whom God is saving), that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.  (Can the perishing say this?).

Romans 1:21 - because, although they knew God, they DID NOT glorify [Him] as God, NOR were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.  (Here is what sin has done to the entire race).  You can infer from here.

1:22 - Professing to be wise, they became fools.  (every single human who has walked on the earth).

“That which is OF THE FLESH is flesh, and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT is spirit” (John 3:6). A new creature, therefore, cannot be the product of natural power.

Isa.53:10 - The Lord made His soul an offering for sin for me.  Can the perishing claim that offering (sacrifice)?

Denying these truths only shows that God can contradict Himself.  You can’t explain them away

Pro.20:12 - “The hearing ear and the seeing eye, the LORD has made them both.”

Isa. 53 :11 - BY HIS KNOWLEDGE My righteous Servant SHALL JUSTIFY MANY..  Does that include the perishing?

Isa. 53:12 - The LORD POURED OUT HIS SOUL unto death for me.  Can the perishing say this?

Pro.20:12 - “The hearing ear and the seeing eye, the LORD has made them both.”  (has nothing to do with choice whatsoever).

But yet, I’ll be accused as unloving, because I quote God’s word.

“Soyou are saying God has chosen some to be saved, and God has chosen ALL others to be damned.”

No, I quote Gods words, and you can infer from there..  Those verses you mention about the “world” refer to whom the atonement was applied, from ALL OVER THE WORLD.  They do not mean every individual IN the world, for it didn’t help the perishing at all.  The offering of Christ’s soul was offered (sacrificed) for those who BELIEVE, not for those who die in their sins, or that sacrifice would mean nothing at all.  

Yes, some will say, “But they chose NOT to believe..."

Not only are we NEVER told man can choose for himself,  but we are also told...

1:29 - So that NO MORTAL MAN should [have pretense for glorying and] BOAST in the presence of God. (clearly denying the assumption of ‘free choice’)

1:30 - But it is FROM HIM THAT YOU HAVE YOUR LIFE in Christ Jesus, Whom God made OUR WISDOM from God, [revealed to us A KNOWLEDGE of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].

1:31 - So then, as it is written, Let him who boasts and proudly rejoices and glories, boast and proudly rejoice and glory in the Lord. (denying the assumption of free choice).

3:21 - But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done IN GOD." (The sins of those who come to God has been brought to light by the Holy Spirit. Those whom the atonement has been applied to, just as you previously said.).

II Cor3.:6 - For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, WHO HAS SHONE IN OUR HEARTS to give the light OF THE KNOWLEDGE (to those who believe)  OF THE GLORY OF GOD in the face of Jesus Christ. (Those to whom the atonement is applied to).

Yes, it is a truth - God will never contradict Himself.
  
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LAVENDERGREEN
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« Reply #19 on: Late June, last year »
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Mandal ... the bible is a collection of 66 books (more if you're Roman Catholic).  You need to ask yourself whose 'voice' is speaking when you read each text.  For example the speaker in Isaiah is not the speaker in Corinthians.   As well, I see that you've implied your own meaning in brackets to some of these texts.

My conclusion:

1.  your conclusions are not academic because you have not considered the situation of each text
2.  you have added your own interpretation to each text.

For example, the voice of Isaiah could be interpreted as foretelling the suffering servant, with a great deal of imagery that you have failed to read. 







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« Reply #20 on: Late June, last year »
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Mandal ... the bible is a collection of 66 books (more if you're Roman Catholic).  You need to ask yourself whose 'voice' is speaking when you read each text.  For example the speaker in Isaiah is not the speaker in Corinthians.   As well, I see that you've implied your own meaning in brackets to some of these texts.

My conclusion:

1.  your conclusions are not academic because you have not considered the situation of each text
2.  you have added your own interpretation to each text.

For example, the voice of Isaiah could be interpreted as foretelling the suffering servant, with a great deal of imagery that you have failed to read. 


I'm with you on this one sis. [thumbup]

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« Reply #21 on: Late June, last year »
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God is the speaker of the entire 66 Books in the Protestant Bible.  His message is the same all the way through from cover to cover, regarding the spiritual condition of unregenerate man.  No, it is not my "meaning" in brackets.  Those passages with brackets are from the Amplfied Bible.  No need to "consider the situation."  Mankind is dead in his sins all the way through God's entire word.  There is no "imagery" when it comes to the sufferings of my Saviour in His life and death, in my place, and in my behalf.  So as not to have you think the brackets are merely my opinion, I took some time and randomly selected a handful of translations for you to consider.
      

NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE - I Corinthians, chapter 1

vrs. 4   I thank my God always concerning you FOR THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH WAS GIVEN YOU in Christ Jesus,

5  THAT IN EVERYTHING you were enriched in Him, in all speech AND ALL KNOWLEDGE.

18  For the word of the cross is FOOLISHNESS TO THOSE WHO ARE PERISHING, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19  For it is written, "I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."
21  For since in the wisdom of God THE WORLD THROUGH ITS WISDOM DID NOT COME TO KNOW GOD, God was well-pleased THROUGH THE FOOLISHNESS of the message preached to save those who believe.
23  but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews A STUMBLING BLOCK and to Gentiles FOOLISHNESS,
24  but to those WHO ARE THE CALLED, both Jews and Greeks, CHRIST IS THE POWER OF GOD AND THE WISDOM OF GOD..
25  Because the foolishness of GOD IS WISER than men, and the weakness of God is STRONGER THAN MEN..
26  FOR CONSIDER YOUR CALLING, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27  BUT GOD HAS CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS of the world to shame the wise, and God HAS CHOSEN THE WEAK THINGS of the world to shame the things which are strong,
28  and the base things of the world and the despised GOD HAS CHOSEN, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29  SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST BEFORE GOD.
30  BUT BY HIS DOING YOU are in Christ Jesus, who became to us WISDOM FROM GOD, and RIGHTEOUSNESS and SANCTIFICATION, and REDEMPTION,
31  so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
 
It is the natural heart of man to boast in himself, in his own doing, and Paul is instructing the Corinthians it is GOD who does all these things.  In other words, submit yourself to His Power and grace, and give HIM all His DUE GLORY, and do not boast in your own pride.  For we are neither “wise, mighty or noble, according to the flesh;” but void of the wisdom from God.  For we are further instructed -


NEW KING JAMES VERSION -

John 3:12 - If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

John 5:44 - How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that [comes] from the only God?

John 6:36 - But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

John 10:25 - Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

John 10:26 - But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God” (Rom.3:11).

ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION -  II Corinthians 4:3-7

4:3  And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.
4:4  In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
4:5  For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
4:6  For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
4:7  But we have this treasure in jars of clay (those whom God is saving), to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.

NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION -

John 3:19 -  This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil (whether in thought, word, or deed).
3:20 -  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

Psalm 107:10-16
vrs.10 -  Some sat in darkness and the deepest gloom, prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11 -  Some sat in darkness and the deepest gloom, prisoners suffering in iron chains,
12 -  So he subjected them to bitter labor; they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13 -  Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble, and he saved them from their distress.
14 -  He brought them out of darkness and the deepest gloom and broke away their chains.
15 -  Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men,
16 -  for he breaks down gates of bronze and cuts through bars of iron.

Mark 4:9-12
9 -  Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
10 -  When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables.
11 -  He told them, "The secret (mystery) of the kingdom of God has been given to you (those who believe).  But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
12 -  so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'  

John 8:43 -  Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
8:44 -  You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
8:46 -  Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
8:47 -  He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Luke 8:10 -  He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, " 'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

The preaching of the Gospel is useless to the deaf.  The written word is of no effect to the blind.  Open God can open blind eyes and deaf ears.

Pro.20:12 -  Ears that hear and eyes that see-- the Lord has made them both.

KING JAMES VERSION -

Rom.5:6 - “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.”
(Strength - power, ability)
Acts 7:51 -  Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
Ezek.44:9 -  Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary.
11:19 -  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
11:20 -  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
36:26 -  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
36:27 -  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

And uncircumcised heart is a heart still enslaved to the filth and pollution of the flesh.   A heart of stone is totally unresponsive to spiritual truth.  An unregenerate man will no more respond to the Gospel than will a rock.  Regeneration is absolutely essential if fallen man is to believe.  

AMPLIFIED BIBLE -

Eph.2:11 -  Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands
2:12 -  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD.
I Thes.4:13 -  Now also we would not have you ignorant, brethren, about those who fall asleep [in death], that you may not grieve [for them] AS THE REST DO WHO HAVE NO HOPE [beyond the grave].
Phil.2:13 -  [Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work..
John 1:12 -  But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name–
1:13 -  WHO OWE THEIR BIRTH neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]
Romans 9:16 -  So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.

9:18 -  So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills.


Why is it necessary for God to save?


NEW LIVING TRANSLATION - Romans 1:20-28

1:20  For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
1:21  Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused.
1:22  Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.
1:23  And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
1:24  So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.
1:25  They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
1:26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.
1:27  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
1:28  Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.

The result of sin.

“But God who is rich in mercy, because of His GREAT LOVE with which He loves us, even when we are dead in trespasses, made us ALIVE together with Christ (by GRACE you have been saved).”
(Eph.2:1-5)
 

This isn't 2 or 3 verses that speak of these truths.  There is much I haven't even included.  The only way to deny these truths, or trying to explain them away, is from what God calls in His word - a "wicked and deceitful heart."
 

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LAVENDERGREEN
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« Reply #22 on: Late June, last year »
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Well the amplified bible is hardly considered to be a valid academic source - so I rest my case. 
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« Reply #23 on: Late June, last year »
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Well the amplified bible is hardly considered to be a valid academic source - so I rest my case. 

But it sure does confirm all those translations, doesn't it?
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« Reply #24 on: Late June, last year »
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I can't see how it confirms anything!     [thinking]
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