Christian Dating About
Christian Singles Easy Index
FeedBurner | RSS

join christian singles

About Christian Singles


Christian Dating and Singles Forums


Almost half past seven in the evening of July 31th, 2010 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Trouble Logging in? Try This Link
Login with username, password and session length
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  

Quick Links: General Discussion | Dating Stuff | Ask A Lady | Ask a Guy | Bible Study | Prayers | Society | Humor
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: sent to the lost sheep  (Read 1348 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ROBERT2222
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 37
Location: N.W. IN.
Posts: 154


View Profile
« on: Late last January »
Reply

Something on another topic got me to thinking. Jesus said, “He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” ” (Matthew 15:24, ESV)  Now we all know that the Gospel is to the Jew first and then the Greek and thus Jesus ministry is to all. However He did say that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel and this, in the context of Him trying to turn away a Gentile woman, must stand as truth. I believe that His context for making this must be viewed in the light of His being the sent one to this specific people group, meaning the Jews alive in Israel. It is a definition of the sphere of apostolic ministry. Jesus was THE sent one to that people at that time and additionally He was the proleptic apostle who was promised to all generations and peoples. Paul spoke along this line of reasoning in this manner. 

“But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; ” (Galatians 1:15–16, ESV)

and

“On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), ” (Galatians 2:7–8, ESV)

shalom and love, earl


Logged
NEWMERCIES
ACS Helper
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 243
Posts: 3649


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Late last January »
Reply

Good post. Yes indeed, he was at that point in time(before the cross) solely for the lost sheep. He IS the sent one, the suffering servant that the Prophets spoke abt, the promised Messiah, who's coming was anticipated. He's the fulfilment of the covenants and the promises made to the natural nation of Israel. He is the bearer of the scepter of the Kingdom which knows no end. But the lost sheep rejected him, if we'd follow Mat's account through. Their rejection(i.e of the past generations) doesn't mean that they can't have faith in him, as we see that Mat's account was indeed written to an audience of more Jewish believing constituents and beyond. And also, we learn of the mystery of Jesus Christ -- after the cross.(Rom.9&10, Eph. 3:1-7)

Pls be noted that, when one is against the OT Law as the order of the day in the NT(which includes our time and generations to come should the Lord not be here yet), AND YET refuses/refutes the fact that Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of ALL that was promised to the natural Israel(thereby making the old Covenant obsolete), or that through faith in Christ, Jesus has made himself a spiritual nation of Israel as Scriptures clearly put forth, even by principle, one still abides by the OT Law/OT Covenant(s) and annulls the fulfilment of the words of the Prophets concerning Jesus and refutes the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for all mankind(Jews and Gentiles), thereby calling on the re-establishment of all the rituals of OT worship which by a long chalk, had fallen short to make a perfect atonement for the sins of mankind in order to reconcile us to God -- the wall of hostility would have been up still, one would be putting it up again thusly, the mystery of the Gospel wouldn't have been disclosed as yet. By refuting the sacrifice and the essence of the Lord Jesus Christ, one accepts the Kingdom of God in the past and future(partly for faulty reasons) aspects but denies the present aspect of it, which would leave us in a questionable state, authority wise -- what would the Holy Spirit be doing here if Jesus never came and ascended? Wouldn't such a notion give satan/the kingdom of darkness, power over us?

I love Israel very much, for personal reasons and also for spiritual reasons which compel me to tell her of God's love and Truth for her, all the more. The first return of the Jews from exile had taken place after King Cryus had issued a decree which enabled them to do so in 537 BC, a move in which among many, Sheshbazar and Zerubabel were. Following that, the Temple foundation was laid in 536 BC(Ez.1:11, 3:2).

The second return took place in 438 BC wherein also Ezra returned. People had stopped building the Temple, turned to building their own homes and God charged them to continue with the Temple work; so it resumed in 520 BC and was completed in 516 BC(Ezra5:2, 6:14).

Nehemiah came with the third phase of returnees, which took place in 444 BC, with a mission to rebuild the wall. These accounts say/show in no way any unfulfilled promises, to enhence the claims of some for the rebuilding of an earthly Temple -- the Old Covenant(s) is made obsolete by the new one. Pls understand me -- gatherings may take place, as there was no set time of when they should end just as there is no scriptural mandate which condones the removal of those who had setlted in the land while they were saving time in exile. They were allowed to return from wherever they were exiled to. Some returned, some stayed, the book of Esther gives a good example. There was/is no scriptural mandate to bring all back either. A return of the hearts to God seem to have been more important to him regardless of where they were. God is after a holy people not a holy city. 1&2 Peter were primarily written to the Hebrews who were in dispersion. If things were otherwise, he sure would have encouraged their return, at this time also, but, he didn't.

And, no where in Scripture does it say that upon their return or in order to return and rebuild, settlers should be evacuated or killed so that the inhabitants of the land(including new converts) should be able to occupy the land -- for one to yank out some to support some political cases, religiously. I find the forcing of Scriptures to support these human endeavors, to be wrong. So then, what else is behind these plans and beliefs? I, don't know...Perhaps a slap right across the face of God and that of Christianity. After she had denounced Jesus, he had said that, her house shall remain desolate untill she calls unto him...blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord -- in a lose paraphrase.

Supporting or pursuing an ungodly cause is something that is done by some other nations and their allies too, this I'll point out for the sake of justice, applicable elsewhere beyond geographical boundaries, pertaining to international relationships/foreign policies/human rights and the, "do unto others what you'll have them do unto you". Using Scriptures wrongly to support an evil cause has nothing to do with the hand of God upon any people. God isn't in such things, Church. If you revere God you do well -- pls cosinder asking him abt these things. Pls see Jeremiah for a better understanding of how serious disobedience/forsaking allegiance with a holy God, is. See how God warned  his people, who instead of listening to him, they sought prohpets who could tell them what they wanted to hear -- all is peace, blessings, blessings etc. NO! God has nothing to do with Baal(idolatry/syncretism), injustices(bloodshed, theft etc.), corruption, treacherousness et all. Within the freedom he gave/gives us, together with Grace, there are still boundaries to regard.

Christians around the world share Judeo-christian values and history with the nation of Israel to some extent, save Judaism and the Talmudic(the teachings of the Elders as Jesus called them) endeavors and teachings. Those who shared negative sentiments concerning her in Europe weren't/aren't Christians. Infact some lavish sentiments on her regardless of what she does, perhaps due to guilty(falsely imposed on them or undealt with) which is also another material for Christian Zionism. I know no Christian who hates Israel and we shouldn't hate her or any other nations. However, Christian Zionism is also an issue with some Christians around the world,  a sole reason for their support for her, by hooks and crooks. This isn't righteous. This isn't loving her. This, hinders, deters peace process in the region, the peace which is good for all the parties.

There are a lot of prophecies going out which aren't in line with God's Word concerning Israel and other nations in the end times. This is alarming. It grieves God. I don't think just because we may share some values, that is a reason and a ticket to comply and support Israel(or any other nation for that matter)at all cost, even to the extent of mocking God's name and tainting his intergrity. I've often asked myself whether the nation of Israel recognizes Christianity and Jesus as the Messiah, as a nation.

Let’s not reduce whom Jesus Christ is or annul what he has accomplished through his life, death, resurrection and ascension, and what he will do upon his return. Let’s not transform the Prince of Peace, Wonderful counselor,  into a Vengeful Warrior God who knows no justice, compassion or LOVE. Let's support any righteous cause, be it Israel's or that of any other nation. By all means, let's pray for peace and safety in Israel and other nations in the region, especially that all will come to know the Messiah who has come, the King whose Kingdom is here, he whom will return for all his -- whom every eye shall see and every tongue shall confess that he, Jesus Christ, is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

While I'm at it, let me say that, one of the excuses used by some false teachers and andherents of Christian Zionism -- who aren't all followers by understanding what they're into or do what they do intentionally-- is the misunderstanding of Scriptures like these:

“And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
(Gen. 12:3) - but who was God talking to here?

And pls look at these:
“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”(Gal. 3:8 )

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”(Gal. 3:16) -- This seed is Jesus Christ, Church.

“Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”(Acts 3:25-26)

“Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”(Jhn. 8:57-58 )


I thank God, he's neither cyclical, nor is he a God of confusion, glory be to his name alone!


Blessings,

NEWMERCIES
« Last Edit: Two weeks ago by NEWMERCIES » Logged

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." (Lk. 14:26; Prov:14:26).
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

 [thumbup]
Logged
JOANMARIE111
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 195
Posts: 2567


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

First he was sent to the jews who rejected him. He next offered salvation to the gentiles. Only a remnant of the jews will be saved. But before we are saved we are lost sheep. All jews or gentiles can be saved but God knows many jews and many gentiles will never be saved. there are a lot of false religions out there. Many fall prey and do not get saved. The sad thing is the world does not see the truth. God must open the eyes of a person to see the truth. So until they are saved they will accuse the christians of being narrowminded of their faith. The world thinks all good people go to heaven. Not true, only beleivers. But God is sovereign and will bring those who he gave jesus to salvation. Halleluhah
Logged
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Rom 11:27  For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."
Rom 11:28  Indeed as regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes. But as regards the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29  For the free gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Logged
JOANMARIE111
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 195
Posts: 2567


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Do you mean leon you think all israel will be saved. Many died without the lord. There will be a revival and all who are in the remnant will be saved. All gentiles in elect too will be saved. God knows who is his. Not every jew will be or is saved. If they are not a beleiver they are unsaved if they die as an unbeleiver.
Logged
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

The only thing I will say on this subject is that it is God who decides who is saved and who is not. It is above my pay grade. I am not qualified to make that decision, I do know that if God promises all, that means all, not just a remnant. However the verses I posted, Paul explains in the same book. He said, Not all who were born Israel are Israel, but those who are the children of promise. I believe this is in chapter 9.

Blessings,
Leon
Logged
NEWMERCIES
ACS Helper
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 243
Posts: 3649


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Rom. 4:11-12/11:25ff  particularly vs 26, and to the words – “And so all Israel shall be saved". The words boldly typed, in Greek mean that the statement, "all Israel shall be saved" is dependent critically upon everything Paul has just said prior to that...that Abraham being the father of all who have believed but have not been circumcised as well as the father of the circumcised who not only are they circumcised but also walk in his footsteps of faith. Mind you pls that circumcision was an outward sign of one’s faith in God. All Israel, means all God’s children of faith. Conversely all Gentiles include all those who don't have faih in Christ Jesus, be they circumcised or not.

The Law of Jesus Christ is the Law of Love/the Law of Faith.(Rom. 3:27, 13:8-10,27, Gal. 5:14, 6:2, Jam.2:8, 1Jhn.3:23, 2Jhn).

Blessings,

NEWMERCIES
« Last Edit: Four weeks ago by NEWMERCIES » Logged

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." (Lk. 14:26; Prov:14:26).
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Yes again NM. It sure is hard to get anything by you. LOL. Here is the explanation of what Paul was saying in that scripture;

Rom 9:6  Not however that the Word of God has failed, for not all those of Israel are Israel;
Rom 9:7  nor because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children. But, "In Isaac shall your Seed be called."
Rom 9:8  That is, not the children of the flesh are children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for a seed.
Rom 9:9  For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son."
Rom 9:10  And not only this, but when Rebekah also had conceived by one, by our father Isaac
Rom 9:11  (for the children had not yet been born, neither had done any good or evil; but that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who called,)
Rom 9:12  it was said to her, "The elder shall serve the younger."
Rom 9:13  As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Rom 9:14  What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!

Good job, NM

Blessings,
Leon
Logged
HISBRIDE
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 222
Posts: 3275


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply


Wow...this is first time in my Christian life that I hear this interpretation.
I have no intention whatsoever to debate on this, but the word means what it says: All Israel shall be saved!
I don't exactly know how God will do it, and I don't have too. He is Sovereign. He is a God of covenant and Israel is her chosen nation and nothing can change that till the end. And all children of God who believe in Jesus Christ are grafted in and are ONE with Israel. For out of two nations He made One. He is the God of Israel and His Redeemer, as well as my Redeemer! May God bless Israel mightily!
[thumbup]


Rom. 4:11-12/11:25ff  particularly vs 26, and to the words – “And so all Israel shall be saved". The words boldly typed, in Greek mean that the statement, "all Israel shall be saved" is dependent critically upon everything Paul has just said prior to that...that Abraham being the father of all who have believed but have not been circumcised as well as the father of the circumcised who not only are they circumcised but also walk in his footsteps of faith. All Israel, means all God's children of faith.  All Gentiles conversely include all those who don't have faih in Christ Jesus, be they circumcised or not.

The Law of Jesus Christ is the Law of Love/the Law of Faith.(Rom. 3:27, 13:8-10,27, Gal. 5:14, 6:2, Jam.2:8, 1Jhn.3:23, 2Jhn).

Blessings,

NEWMERCIES

Logged

"A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."
JOANMARIE111
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 195
Posts: 2567


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Do you all believe every jew will be saved. I take it every jew that is to be saved will come. Only a remnant will be saved. I am convinced every jew on earth is not to be saved. Look at all the jews not saved now who died.
Logged
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

Joanmarie,

One of the Pastors I am studying with right now believes that everyone will be given another chance (Or a real chance) to come to Christ during the Millennium  Reign of Christ. They will, however, have to withstand the temptation at the release of Satan at the end of the thousand years. If they withstand, they are saved.

I am not saying this Pastor is correct, but it makes you think. Personally, I don't know if he is brilliant or delusional. LOL. I do enjoy his teachings though, they make you think outside the box.

Blessings,
Leon

Logged
NEWMERCIES
ACS Helper
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 243
Posts: 3649


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply


Wow...this is first time in my Christian life that I hear this interpretation.
I have no intention whatsoever to debate on this, but the word means what it says: All Israel shall be saved!
I don't exactly know how God will do it, and I don't have too. He is Sovereign. He is a God of covenant and Israel is her chosen nation and nothing can change that till the end. And all children of God who believe in Jesus Christ are grafted in and are ONE with Israel. For out of two nations He made One. He is the God of Israel and His Redeemer, as well as my Redeemer! May God bless Israel mightily!
[thumbup]



Dear sister HB, Words have meaning(s), and so much more Words used in the Bible, especially that they weren't originally written in our own languages. I'm sorry that you've never heard that in your christian life. Breaks my heart so. But, I rejoice in Christ that you now have. I understand a lot many other unscriptural teachings have gone forth concerning this subject.

I have NOT introduced anythingway new, pls be noted. It has always been that way, been there in your Bible as well as mine, only how it has been grasped/understood knowingly or unknowingly is what has some of us differing from each other. IF infact one seeks the correct meaning, the ALL Israel which will be saved is that which is made up of Jews and Gentiles who will choose to believe in Christ; all of these will be saved, by faith (through Grace  as the Epistle to Ephesians complements it ) -- as our father Abraham had chosen to put his faith in God, an example used by Paul in his Epistle to the Roman Church -- It was faith which brought him to a place of Covenant with God.

ALL those who will put their aith in Christ, is the Israel which Apostle Paul is refering to, with the Words 'ALL srael'  contextually -- which requires that one stays within the text. Infact this is seen very clearly, even without the unlocking of the original language, just by following Paul's thought and using literal study tools, and is also supported by Scripture else where in the Bible.

So again, In other words, everybody, who will put their faith in/call on the name of Christ Jesus, will be saved, Jews as well as Gentiles. Pls see the Epistle to the Roman Church as a complete unit and also Hebrews 11 in the light of the whole Epistel as a unit and John's Apocalypse -- there's more but these will do.

Pls see to the terms 'Israel' in the OT and NT, 'Jew’, ‘chosen people’ and ‘children of God’. My sister, God has fulfilled the Covenant(s) he made with Israel, through Jesus Christ, by bringing in THE better Covenant under which all are handled equally making the Israel of faith, by principle, an all inclusive fact. Infact the later isn't a new idea as it also was there in the OT.(Deut. 23:7-8, Isa. 56:3, 6-7, Eze. 47:22-23, Mat. 8:11-12, Lk. 3:7-9, Jhn. 8:39, Gal. 6: 12-18, etc. etc.) but now so much more through Christ.

Are there two chosen peoples? NO. But this is present in a fundamentalistic approach of Scripture, which honestly, forces, tweaks and ignores what scriptures speak for themselves.

Let's guard against anything else which denies God's Word, as that road leads to a chain reaction of other faulty teachings, which I won't get into at this point. It's glorious that God had chosen Israel as the vehicle of his Grace in his plan for the salvation of mankind. It's glorious that even when he had every reason to cut her off completely after her apostasy, he still chose to show her mercy -- the natural Israel enjoys Grace too and not the consequnces of the Law, how great is our God! It's glorious that the Gentiles have too become heirs with Christ. If Scriptures would have stated and taught otherwise, that too would have been glorious. As it is, what you suggest isn't what it teaches. But, as always, I do respect your view and that of others and the right you have to believe whatever you desire to.

God is indeed faithfull to his Covenant -- only, he observes covenantal faithfulness over the Better Covenant, entered through Jesus' Law of faith, the Law of Love, after the old one is made obsolete. Obsolete, means, just that -- obsolete. This, he has ordained in his sovereign GRACE, wisdom, all power, glory, majesty and LOVE.


Much love to you sis,

NEWMERCIES
« Last Edit: Four weeks ago by NEWMERCIES » Logged

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." (Lk. 14:26; Prov:14:26).
LEONMARTIN
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 55
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

NM, maybe you know, but it has slipped my mind right now. Is it Jer. where God divorces Israel? I think it is, but I will have to look. My point is, a divorce is symbolic of the breaking of a covenant. Since Israel did not keep their part, God removed His.

Blessings,
Leon
Logged
NEWMERCIES
ACS Helper
Disciple
*****

Warm Fuzzies 243
Posts: 3649


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Four weeks ago »
Reply

You're right bro Leon. The divorce comes as an allegory, at times as a metaphor or an analogy and even as a symbolism -- figures of speech. Jeremiah has it, Hosea strikes the cord of God's love to an unfaithful wife better, and how that ends. Indeed, the essence and the siginificance of it is to bring across what you said abt the Covenant.

But, for some literalists/absolutists, one may be termed "Gnostic" for the use of literal devices/consideration of styles of literature -- I'm saying the following just to make a point, you haven't objected  or said a word abt this -- to some of them, at most one is exempted to look at the 'Divorce' as a symbolism(which it truly is, the result of Israel's breach of the Covenant btn her and God) but no other attempts are welcomed when it comes to eschatology or Israel, which have been/is a part of other slots on the timeline of God's work and plan of the restoration/salvation of mankind, even inspite of Scriptural proof. I think we're to take to mind that Gnosticism is a worldview and not a tool in handling Scriptures -- it can stand on the way to right handling o the Word.  And just like Gnosticism, so also are Literalism/Fundamentalism. 

I mean, when one picks up a book(well, I'll speak for myself), I can tell what kind I want or what literal style I'd be dealing with. The Bible is also a Book, although it's a Holy Book/a compilation if 66 books written by different authors who had varying purposes of authorship and primary recipients. People who wrote it were inspired by God and had to do with literal styles of their day too. To me, no matter how much one would try to force literalism/aboslutism where that isn't the case/intended into the Bible, one can't silence what it speaks so loud for itself. Just because Gnostics used to see everything symbolically/allegorically doesn't make it an abhorent literal device, where that is the case in Scripture, I believe. I mean, was Paul a Gnostic? Never!(Gal. 4:24 KJV, NRSV etc.)

Literalism where it isn't meant to be, has caused a lot of false/faulty teachings, many times contradicts the Word, but some embrace it unchecked, very readily. So also symbolism where that isn't meant to be in Scripture, causes trouble. But, to each, as wished.

Thank you Lord for your Living Word. Thank you for your Spirit, who leads and guides us into all TRUTH.

Blessings to you my brother,

NEWMERCIES
« Last Edit: Four weeks ago by NEWMERCIES » Logged

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." (Lk. 14:26; Prov:14:26).
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
+  About Christian Singles   
|-+  The Christian Faith   
| |-+  Bible Study   
| | |-+  Topic:

sent to the lost sheep

 
Jump to:  

Search Exchange Link Exchange Web Portal SpyderMap
Christian Dating Forums Links | Sitemap | Friends of aCs
About Christian Singles
Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC

Christian Singles Forums Christian Dating